Double-D Standards, Double-D Irony
A couple of recent conversations got me thinking. I have a lot of male friends, and among the range of men I know they fall all across the spectrum in their ideas of women, their level of comfort with their own masculinity, and their level of what I will unabashedly label homophobia.
I’ve noticed a certain disconnect in some of their standards. Some of them feel that it is fine and natural to ogle women. Some even feel that women not only should accept it as de rigeur, but that they like to be objectified sexually. Some of these men even think that women harbor fantasies about being “seduced” or raped. This may or may not be true on an individual level, but in my experience, men’s ideas of women’s fantasies and women’s actual fantasies are very different. Very different indeed.
Nonetheless, these same men often express and experience everything from discomfort to downright anger when they feel that they are being ogled by other men. Gay men. And I started thinking…what’s the difference, really? I mean, hey, gay or not, they’re just being “guys” and “all guys look” so “what’s the big deal?”
So a man can recognize his own displeasure at being ogled and lusted after by another guy, and yet disconnect this when it comes to women. Often when a woman expresses displeasure at unwanted advances, a man will tell her she is being uptight or even label her a bitch. (Mind you, not all men advance on a woman without getting the come hither cue, and those men are not likely to label women so. They’ve already got the boundary respect issue in their pocket.)
How can these men not see the double-standard here? I can only guess at the explanations, but no matter which one I try, it still comes down to a very basic and fundamental issue. The lust, the attention, and the sense of privilege and right to lust and look, and maybe even act on it, is unwelcome.
So, guys in the audience. The next time you justify in your mind that a woman “wants it”, “expects it”, “doesn’t/shouldn’t mind it”, “deserves it” or at the very minimum that “you’re just being a guy and all guys look”, ask yourself if you would want to be subjected to it yourself. You can justify that you might want a woman to ogle you, make advances, or even seduce you by force, but if you can imagine ANY situation, even one that you view as “abnormal”, where you would feel uncomfortable, unsafe, or even angry with it, then you have to extend that right to women too. No one has the right to determine for someone else what they are comfortable with, or what they ought to be comfortable with.
Remember that, and teach it to your children.
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I have been trying to formulate, in my own mind, what I disagree with in this post, for hours. Then I realized, what I really want to say is that much of what you say is right, spot on. Yes, that type of male is an idiot. Yes, his attitudes are wrong. BUT. Many women would feel piqued if they put on the paint, and the smell goods and the sexy blouse and the thong so there was no panty line AND NO ONE NOTICED.
Men are uncomfortable with being noticed by other men because they see it as a threat to their sexuality - their masculinity. Because all of their lives there has been an internal conflict about their masculinity. Not ALL men, granted. But most. Women have no such challenge. At least, most women.
Women don’t want to be ogled? Then don’t dress for it. You don’t HAVE to, you know. You COULD dress for function and comfort and never draw a whistle. If you wanted to. If you wanted to NOT compete with the other women you know and meet. But then, what are you competing for?
Lceel, as always a thoughtful response. I agree that women dress to get attention sometimes, and I myself do this. The power of attraction is downright intoxicating. On the other hand, that does not mean I am sending the message that every guy then has the right to treat me with disrespect, or advance aggressively when I am not reciprocating or I’ve said no.
Noticing an attractive woman does not need to be carried out with disrespect.
But really, the point I was making doesn’t have much to do with that. It was to get people thinking in a different way about the issue. To understand that, whatever a woman’s reason might be, she has a right to it. That she might feel uncomfortable, and that should be respected.
Back to the provocative dress for a moment. I could also point out that men dress for attention too. Not in the same manner or at the same level, but a tight pair of jeans over a nice body likely has nothing to do with comfort and at least something to do with drawing attention. If that attention is from someone (in this scenario we are saying a male) that it is unwanted from, and that attention crosses a line, is it the guy’s fault that he wore tight jeans? Or is it the aggressor’s fault for not respecting boundaries?
I also disagree that women have no such challenge, particularly in today’s culture where feminism has taken a severe backslide. Girls are conditioned from the moment media hits their consciousness to believe that they have to be a certain size, shape, age, etc to be WORTH something. This is not a natural state for women. Scientific inquiry has supported strongly that when you remove the conditioning, girls do not care so much about how they look. They care more about what they think and feel and DO.
I’m sure there will be more to say on this, but I can’t formulate longer arguments in a comment. For now, I leave you with this link.
http://www.apa.org/releases/sexualization.html
This seems to me to be a discussion very much worth having. As a dad with a 15yo daughter I experience a couple of things that relate to the subject. The girls that age can be quite provocative in their dress and thus inspire all the behavior that you have mentioned. It concearns me that so many of them seem to depend on a provocative presentation for their sense of worth. As a man and a father…. boy are they attractive! It takes a concious and concerted effort to remain appropriate with them.
Given these experiences I think it is helpful that you are sharing what if feels like and the balance that a woman must find in her presentation of herself to the world. I can say that it is a challenge for men to have our libido driven intermnal responses and still act in an appropriate manner.
–John B.
Fabulous post! I love your thoughts on this. Sorry I can’t formulate a more substantive comment right now other than to say just that.
Hi MPJ, thanks for stopping in! A couple of male friends read this and agreed with Lceel, that the situation is completely different because it is a same sex scenario.
So that means I didn’t communicate clearly enough. It doesn’t matter what the situation is, if it makes one feel uncomfortable, then it’s not OK. Women have a right to feel uncomfortable and to not be told that “guys will be guys” or that it somehow their fault. Reminds me of those ridiculous rape campaign posters that essentially blame the rape victim for getting drunk.
gah!
John B, I missed you! I didn’t know you still visited.
I agree that these issues need to be talked about more. On both sides. Girls dress provocatively because our culture has become so pornified and these young girls are growing up thinking this is how to get male attention. They are being sent the message from the time they can open their eyes. Men buy into that culture, literally and figuratively, because it gives them instant gratification with few downfalls for them.
Then women have to keep upping the ante in order to feel like they can compete. What’s more disturbing and frightening is that there’s a lot more going on than provocative dress codes.
Young girls are servicing boys with blow jobs with NO RECIPROCATION. Vaginoplasty clinics are opening up everywhere to cater to the growing trend for women to have their vaginas altered to look more like porn stars PER REQUESTS from their significant others. Breast implants we all know about.
Ugh. It all makes me feel so sad and sick. I don’t even want to go out the front door anymore. For those that think this is sexually liberating, I’d like to know how this is sexually liberating for women. The whole culture has become about men’s pleasure and these are the lessons we are giving our sons and daughters to grow up with.
As if the relationship between men and women wasn’t complex enough.